2

This is becoming a joke. Exactly what is happening with our policy. This is the second time that @toscho leaves 95% of questions open that we close vote. (Those of you with 10K+ reputation can check out the stats). This questions is third party plugin related and in most cases low quality woocommerce related questions.

Are woocommerce questions now on topic. Have the policy changed without informing any other users. What is really going on behind closed doors. What have the moderators (or a particular moderator) decided without involving other members of the site.

I'm honest in saying that I'm sick and tired of this review queue as it has become nothing more than a circus. We have closed so much questions last year with the summer cleanup as we decided third party plugins and themes will be off topic, now the same type of questions now that we closed last year for being off topic, such question's close votes are now being rejected by @toscho and get left open.

We all gave inputs on @kaiser last meta discussion on what we should do with third party questions from which has came nothing from, no concensus was ever reached as far as I know. The discussion is still also open in my opinion.

I can now understand why 3K+ reputation users don't want to get involved in review queue doing close votes and also why the guys who use to do close votes don't want to do it any more.

To conclude, we all (including moderators) decided to make the decision to make at least low quality third party plugin and themes off topic. What happened since then. What happened with moderator transparency. We as a community can't moderate a site if the moderators decide to go against the community when they are the ones to have made decisions with the community to moderate the site in a particular manner. You are feeding us to the wolves now.

C'mon guys, sort yourselves out, make a decision on what our policies should be regarding third party plugins and themes, come back to us and tell us how we should moderate such questions and update our site policies accordingly as it really seems that our decisions aren't taken into account. Until then, you as moderators can moderate the site as I'm not interested anymore in helping out, it is a waste of time. Sorry, but this is how I feel and I don't think I speak for myself here alone

  • 4
    I honestly have a bit of a problem with this question: It's not really a question and I can't answer anything here. – kaiser May 25 '15 at 22:27
  • No problem @kaiser Thank you for your honesty and input :-) – Pieter Goosen May 26 '15 at 4:19
  • In a way I'm just happy The Gang isn't involved - excuse my humour with this. – Nicolai May 26 '15 at 9:31
  • 1
    Hahaha, a little sunshine in it all. @ialocin – Pieter Goosen May 26 '15 at 10:30
  • I usually find it more difficult to review a question than answering one. All the active discussions about 3rd party questions have been informative and interesting, but while digesting all the ideas, I've become less confident in handling those type of reviews. I guess part of it is because I'm still balancing the pros/cons about all these proposals ;-) – birgire May 26 '15 at 12:24
  • @birgire that is why I decided to bail out for a while. We are all still too divided it seems to take stand and make a definite decision. A new question comes to mind, I like the idea of passing questions with relevant code in order to make the question more general, but how are you going to tell another person asking the same question about the same plugin that his question is off topic based on no code while the other question is on topic because of code and relevant info supplied. :-). Just a thought though. It is however time to stop and assess yourself and how you feel about this topic – Pieter Goosen May 26 '15 at 12:27
  • 2
    I hope you don't mean bailing out on all activity and contributions :( - yes, I'm afraid whatever path we take, it will always contain some gray areas, just like you mention. Maybe it would help us to have some kind of current-state article on "Reviewing" with some tips and even suggestions how to safe questions from the current off-topic list? – birgire May 26 '15 at 13:42
  • 1
    The sidebar of review says that I am a moderator so I decide what's on topic and what's not! In all seriousness though, I don't mind reviewing and disappointed that I can only review 20 questions per day as there are usually double that. It's come to a point where I'm reviewing more than answering questions which is fine I guess. That being said I am kind of strict when it comes to what's in the help section and what's been previously discussed on meta. Of course that may not translate to everyone but I currently don't see a way to make concrete rules more obvious. – Howdy_McGee May 26 '15 at 22:02
  • 2
    @PieterGoosen Staying »Sunny« can't be wrong. – Nicolai May 27 '15 at 13:35
5

Votes are just votes. Nobody is forced to cast a specific vote. Usually, I just leave the close vote queue alone until it piles up to the point that nobody won’t touch it anymore. Then I reduce it a little bit.

I do cast close votes on third-party questions when I think they cannot be salvaged and answered on our site. My leave open votes do not clear the existing close votes, they remove the question just from the queue. Questions without answers and upvotes are removed automatically after a while, so no harm is done.

There is no change in policy. When a question is closed by the community as off-topic, I leave it closed.

  • What is the use of leaving questions open that are off topic. If a moderator decides to leave a question open, it is removed from queue, so other users don't see it in queue. Yes, everyone should take part in doing some kind of moderation work, specially our review queue, but most users, like me now, are discouraged from doing that small part as there is no consensus among us what should be closed and what not. It really does seem that you have a problem with our current off topic policy. My question to you is, if you have a problem, or disagree with how we are doing things .................. – Pieter Goosen May 25 '15 at 10:03
  • ......why did you not participate in this discussion. You just left the same comment there as in this answer which states that questions without upvotes or answers gets deleted after a while. If a question is closed, it can always be reopened with a proper edit to make it more on topic. From experience, this rarely happens. Even just asking a user to post relevant info gets ignored by the OP – Pieter Goosen May 25 '15 at 10:08
  • I have explained why I changed my mind regarding "third-party" code. I support @kaiser’s proposal, but until we have reached a consensus, I will not reopen questions that are closed just because they are about third-party code. – fuxia May 25 '15 at 10:09
  • That proposal should have been in the discussion I have linked to. @kaiser was the only moderator who have came up with proposal. It is excepted, or at least by me, that anyone else who did not add a proposal is happy with current policy. – Pieter Goosen May 25 '15 at 10:16
  • At least I have said what I needed to, and whether or not anyone agrees or disagrees with me, with the current state which certain areas of this site is moderated ( moderators and normal users included ), it makes this a very unhappy place to be. If we can't even have concensus about stuff like on topic and off topic questions and all parties involved simply not given any input at all, I really don't see a way forward – Pieter Goosen May 25 '15 at 10:23
  • 2
    @PieterGoosen The problem is that there is no really good idea (incl. mine). And there just never came up a better one. As I ran out of ideas and the question never received that one answer, we stick to the current scope. – kaiser May 25 '15 at 22:32
4

This is becoming a joke. Exactly what is happening with our policy. This is the second time that @toscho leaves 95% of questions open that we close vote. (Those of you with 10K+ reputation can check out the stats).

What stats? It is clear that some situation got you going, but you are not making clear what the situation is. Please take a breath and elaborate.

Are woocommerce questions now on topic. Have the policy changed without informing any other users.

  1. No, they are not.
  2. The policy is what currently captured in writing.

What is really going on behind closed doors.

Nothing much. No, really, we have a private room and it barely sees couple messages a month. Mostly it's when we pass situation to other moderator to deal with.

What have the moderators (or a particular moderator) decided without involving other members of the site.

I think toscho does have opinions on scope, I am not going to speak for him on that.

such question's close votes are now being rejected by @toscho and get left open

Again, could you elaborate on what's happening? Mechanically? Do you mean that toscho's binding vote is cancelling out close votes?

Again, please speak in terms of specific situation, that is most productive frame for meta discussion.

I can now understand why 3K+ reputation users don't want to get involved in review queue doing close votes and also why the guys who use to do close votes don't want to do it any more.

I think you are presuming to think for other people here. Again, please let's start with specific situation and your opinion of it. Then we can move on to larger impact.

What happened with moderator transparency.

I don't feel anything happened whatsoever, but hey I am the moderator, so... Please make your concerns more clear, I will be sure to hear it. If you want administration to get involved to help with situation as you see it, we will make that happen too.

C'mon guys, sort yourselves out, make a decision on what our policies should be regarding third party plugins and themes, come back to us and tell us how we should moderate such questions

As you well know, moderators are not telling site what to do. That is not our function.

The scope is being set and refined by community of the site.

Clearly you feel there is some ongoing issue with a scope and moderator or moderators (what did I do? :) handling of it. Let's start there. In detail.

  • Thanks for taking the time to answer. I was specifically refering to this in review queue. All moderators and user with 10K + reputation can see this. I'm specifically talking about the questions that was left open by @toscho which according to the policy is off topic. I know a few points is just my opinion as you have stated, but there isn't much other logical explanations to answer my questions. Sorry for being unclear, but my main question is, why is there so much inconsistancy to what is on topic and what not – Pieter Goosen May 25 '15 at 9:54

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .